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Field_Marshal
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Posts: 12

A place to post ideas/whishes/feedback for new version of GRM mod for Blitzkrieg 2.

August 19, 2016 at 3:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Field_Marshal
Member
Posts: 12

Alright, as most of the players know those su122 SPG's are too powerful, well they had 122mm howitzer gun which was strong and thats ok, but their armor is too strong, I mean 40 mm roof armour, and 80mm front armour. I played with su122 in war thunder and it was very crappy SPG :/.

 

Here is a website with su122 armour table.

Another problematic thing is that infantry is in trucks when the game begins and some folks can create async because of that so it might be better to keep it as it is in normal game.

And a few more changes that I would like to see:

- a little stronger tigers (Tiger 1) and panthers (panthers have problems with penetrating sluggers front armour and tigers could do better)

- stronger infantry ( but not so strong like in mod 18 )

- more maps

- maybe adding some better heavy anti air guns for USA and GB

- adding italy and france (that would be nice) :)

- you said that arty is too mighty in the mod, I think that it could be a little more balanced

- adding comets as med. tanks in 44-45 for GB

- releasing the mod in a nice installer file (just like the first version) :D

August 19, 2016 at 8:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

- Stronger Infantry: In what way? (more units, more HP, highersight than tanks...)
- Async Problem could be minimised(killing one possibilty of async) if trucks can carry only Infantry OR tow only AT-guns
- more maps should be no problem
- Unit changes are tricky as I am amatuer with it, but compared to the website the SU should have same roof armor like Jagdpanther
To change the armor i have no experiance so to adjust armor is one thing but to change armorpatten for Tiger another, besides exchangeing KV85 with KV2 would make the tiger so strong you want it, in 45 germany was loosiung war and IS2 are fucking cool things, so i not know if i should touch tiger armor pattern
- the allied heavy AA is good vs Air, never was built as AT-gun
- adding comets should be no problem (only the balance issue)

+ orginal GRM maps need bugfix
+ rebalancing Reinforcements (Unit type/quantity/ ReinforcementTimeCost)

Too I think it might be a good idea to decrease the sight range for tanks (beeing more realistic and giving infantry a real advantage)
Ground attack planes could get lower fuel (so they can only hit and fly home)
DO WE NEED THE HIDING ABILITY FOR ELITE INFANTRY/PARA?
(I would like to trash that)

August 19, 2016 at 10:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Field_Marshal
Member
Posts: 12
Better hp for infantry and better sight then tanks sounds nice, but some folks might not like if they realize that tanks cant see stuff like they usually do, so maybe keep sight range of tanks and increase sight range of infantry (Im not sure if spyglass skill will improve with that, if not then your idea is probably better), and maybe armoured vehicles and sone light tanks could also get better sight for recon. When I said that tigers and panthers could do better, I didnt mean that they need stronger armour (D5-T could probably destroy tiger in one hit), Its just that panther in bk2 penetrates 127 mm armour, but in fotr they penetrate 160 mm armour(it could kill is2 with 2 good hits), and I played this game for months, and I saw that tiger killed slugger and jagdtiger in one hit only once, I thought that they were better then that. One hit for gaps sounds like bad idea to me. Elites could have camo skill at later level (give them gernades and some good AT weapons - mod 18 team did that).
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August 21, 2016 at 11:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

Spyglass skill will be useless if sight range is maxed for infantry, so thats no option!
I think reducing sight for tanks (except for armoured vehicles and some light tanks) is the most realistic thing to do.


In BK2 Tiger can kill enemy with one shot (its the same weapon Jagdpanther uses)
Same with KV85/SU85 both have same weapon.
In BK2 much is a diceroll (I sometimes need to shoot on ZSU over 5 times with JP(88mm) to kill it)

How solve the GAP problem?
Mobile Art?

camo skill is magic (there is no such magic hood in reality, esp not if running) thats why I think camo skill needs to get deleted. (Now if there is a way that camo skill only works if unit is crawling, and unit becomes visual if starts running, it would be the best compromise!)
You realy NEEED camo skill, do you? (its sort of cheating isn't it?)

Anyone have the JagdpanzerIV unit for BK2? would like to implement it in new mod vers.

August 21, 2016 at 12:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Field_Marshal
Member
Posts: 12

Well then, tanks sight range may decrease for a few meters(dont be brutal with that).

Im not sure what to do with GAPs.

Mobile arty... well as I said for su weaker armour, people called arty god of war and arty (in most cases) wont shot what arty cannot see so if you remove that camo skill from elites, arty fans will have to use some other troops.

I remember that mod 18 team did some magic with some infantry squads who were able to use camo skill but they werent able to move with it (that seems to be realistic) but it made me angry when I first used them.

As you know for making new units you need anchient versions of maya and if you have one then you can create that unit. Maybe someone made jagdpanzer IV in WMM or mod 18 for bk2, but im not sure about that. I know that Michael_Wittman created a lot of amazing stuff for mods for this game so maybe he already made jagd pz. IV for this game, you can ask him a few things about that, and sice youre adding german TDs it will be also nice to see marders and nashorns.

August 22, 2016 at 11:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Apocalypse
Moderator
Posts: 24

I think it is important to include every unit in game, but at the same time, also to keep gameplay complex with a great variety of units in a match.


It is okay for one unit to be stronger and more flexible than the same unit of another nation, but the weaker unit needs at least 1 factor that can make it a valuable unit for certain situations.

A good example would be heavy tank "Churchill" in 43-44.

It is by far weaker and less flexible than Tiger and Kv-85. It has a 140mm front armour that attempts to make up for it, but fails, due to the low HP and weak side- and back-armour.

The idea is good: Have a heavy tank that is only efficient as a "tank", absorbing damage and reinforcing infantry vs. heavy guns, but with low offensive capabilities.

But it fails in practice, many strong guns (especially 88mm AA), as well as light and medium tanks and infantry can "easily" destroy churchill.

I think one reason is: The armor we see on the screen is just an average* value made of a MIN and MAX value, the max value lies at 148mm - strong enough to fend off hits from the 88mm gun, however, the MIN value lies at 133  - low enough to be penetrated by the 88mm gun.

* (average of 148 and 133 = 140.5)


Another reason is: 88mm AA has high dispersion and tends to hit side armour often, when it is actually aiming frontal, which results in successfully damaging or destroying the tank.

So, as you see, there are many possibilities to fix this, it ranges from increasing armour values of churchill to lowering dispersion of 88mm AA.


It will be difficult to find the right balance, since, if you change one value, it affects many other units as well.

Increasing armor will give Jagdpanther a advantage over slugger etc...

Lowering dispersion of 88mm AA will make it even more dangerous to any other tank "and" planes.

I would probably not change too many values and orientate myself on "real" values, as long as the balancing allows it.

Question is also, do you want to change values only? Do you want to include new units? Do you want to include new functions*?

*I like the idea of unreliable tanks(like several Udssr tanks) with failing motors, chains, guns etc... occasionally, and which have to be repaired first. before they can move on


I will just list the few units who I find especially unbalanced, the details should be discussed by a team of testplayers (4-6), who gather a good amount of ideas.

Buff:

-Churchill needs a slight buff

-M4A1 Calliope needs a slight buff (Gun is not working either)

-Nebelwerfer needs a slight buff

-All AT guns from 43-44 on need a strong buff

-Lysander and IL-2 recon planes need immunity from AA ground units, like the german Storch, and more HP

-Tiger needs a slight buff vs. Kv85 (I will also list Kv-85 for a slight nerf below)

and/or Pz. IV (german med), since it destroyed very easily by ZSU-37 and Tiger I. is too weak, you often have to rely on Jagdpanther to destroy Kv-85

(T34 and SU-85 may require a slight buff, but need to be careful, since Udssr is pretty strong in 43-44 already)

Nerf:

-Hs129 definetely needs a strong nerf

-SU-122 needs a nerf

-Kv-85 needs a slight nerf, at least vs. Tiger I. (Note: Kv-85 has most precise gun in 43-44 with a dispersion rate of 1.7, even more precise than slugger and Jagdpanther, while Tiger has only 2.4, which is worse than most medium tanks).

(ZSU-37 "may" need a nerf too, depending on the new SU-122 and Kv-85)


Balancing artillery is generally a difficult task. (especially in 44-45)

I would nerf GAPs ONLY in 44-45, not in 43-44.


The advantages of elite infantry is also restricted, and may be lowered further with a weaker artillery and smaller maps.


If anything, I would reduce the elite unit drops from 3+1 Sniper to 2+1 sniper or so, or tweak another bit, but I would not remove the ability to hide completely. (It would also increase the usefulness of recon planes)


Both sides have the ability to use elite, and both sides have the ability to search for elite.


After fixing these fatal balancing issues (Especially SU-122 and Hs129), we can go further into details, like tweaking infantry and such.

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August 25, 2016 at 10:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Apocalypse
Moderator
Posts: 24

oh, and at shroom:

Are you talking of Tiger I? Because Tiger I. does definetely NOT have the same gun as Jagdpanther, the gun is much worse.

However, Tiger II. seems to have the same gun, or very similar gun.

But from what I read, Field_Marshal talked about Tiger I.


And another thing I forgot.

 

From what I know, there is a chance for every tank model, that, if hit, a shot bounces of the hull, even if the projectile would easily penetrate the armor.

 

This appears to happen especially often vs. SU-122.

 

It happens quite often, that I have to hit it 4+ times (with heavy artillery!) until a hit succeeds and destroys the tank.


Also, ZSU-37 and SU-122 were crappy tanks in real. :x


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August 25, 2016 at 10:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

 

Someone sent me this on Facebook, I think it fits into this thread:
"After playing your old BK2-mod, last week, I have a couple af ideas, for your proposed upgrade of GRM.

 

Maybe

 

an upgrade of all big maps (all 20 by 20 maps), best for multiplayer games, to supplyline-mode. All reinforcements comes from original warehouse, or warehouses next to edge of map.

Why..?? To improve the importence of tactical skills, secured supplylines and use of combined arms.

 

include an extra engineer unit and an ambulance-unit (So when call enginnes, you get to engineers and an ambulance).

Why..?? I like the ambulance-unit, so one kan reinforce damaged infantry units. Like the tanks, you will be able to withdraw a damaged unit, and replace it with one at full strength, for me more need for tactical skill. Only one engineer, in my opinion, is very little, when needed to take warehouses, set up reair-zone, lay and/or clear mines.

-

a change of the German Pak, on tech-level 44-45, from Pak 40 to the 88 mm. Pak 43.

Why..?? The 75 mm. Pak 40 is severely underpowered, on the other hand, if this a choice of balancing (Ger--> great heavy AA, light Pak, USSR--> the opposit), it works, and this suggestion should be ignored:-)

-

Germany, on tech-level 43, should start with a single Elephant, like USSR, I forget which tech-level, starts with a SU-100x.

Why..?? You always need an Elephant:-).

- In the present mod, i like the difference between each sides artillery-units. Good balancing there Gerald Kielhorn, short range arty, but heavy tanks and good AT-guns. One needs to take a good look at your avalible units, theire strenghts and weaknesses, and use them wisely. If you have a certain way of playing, it will not be succesfull with all sides, now that is cool...!!"

November 19, 2016 at 9:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

We are starting work on GRM2 this week, starting with tech41/42

so NOW is the time to post your wishes, as now we can implent them, after mod is done, it will be too late!

there will be 5 max nations (germ/ussr/usa/gb/jap) and probably 4-6 tech levels

March 29, 2017 at 11:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

tttz
Member
Posts: 9

if you want to limit su122 howitzers , i suggest you build more townhouses in the map which may block su122's rounds and su122's mobility . 

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March 30, 2017 at 12:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

tttz
Member
Posts: 9

or if you can modify su122 's quantity on each call , that will be great !

March 30, 2017 at 12:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Field_Marshal
Member
Posts: 12
LOL tttz, can't live without his OP su's xD, oh come on man that fucking armor is simply not realistic at all, su-122 was real sh!t (its bad in war thunder, idk fir wot) and only in normal bk2 it seems to be buffed, in fotr its much more balanced and so it should be here.
March 30, 2017 at 8:11 AM Flag Quote & Reply

kryushaZ
Member
Posts: 15
It is possible in principle to dispense with replacement су122 or simply reduce the reserve to 2 su 122, the characteristics of change is not logical so they historical, su-122 have 45 frontal armor, just these 45 pieces of armor slopped turns into 88 pieces of armor like we have now in the game...So if you nerf the only armor the sides or the roof or rear, too, nothing has changed.Need nerf guns Su-122, it is necessary to reduce the recharge rate, very lower precision, to reduce speed su-122 . Then the su-122 will be crap without the nerf armor
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=)
March 30, 2017 at 8:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

kryushaZ at March 30, 2017 at 8:43 AM

It is possible in principle to dispense with replacement су122 or simply reduce the reserve to 2 su 122, the characteristics of change is not logical so they historical, su-122 have 45 frontal armor, just these 45 pieces of armor slopped turns into 88 pieces of armor like we have now in the game...So if you nerf the only armor the sides or the roof or rear, too, nothing has changed.Need nerf guns Su-122, it is necessary to reduce the recharge rate, very lower precision, to reduce speed su-122 . Then the su-122 will be crap without the nerf armor

kryusha made a point here, I too think armor is not the problem, as i can slaughter SU with my light tanks. But reload time, speed and precision needs nerf!

March 30, 2017 at 10:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

kryushaZ at March 29, 2017 at 10:45 PM

Here's my idea for a 41-42 Since the idea is very large,it does not fit the message,so you have to download and watch Link : https://cloud.mail.ru/public/G3bX/eVDL9HWfz

I wish you would have put that into excel-file. I am affraid, the txt file is a bit confusing...


I signed up to dropbox, need to install software it seems, looking forward to open project folder, so Project-team can exchange files

March 30, 2017 at 10:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

Reinforcement Chart

this is absolut theory at the moment, sort of brainstorming document

March 30, 2017 at 7:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

I reformated 1st sheet, still work to do, but I hope with this concept, all needed information is in place, by still keeping document clearly represented.

Look German Light Tanks Reinforcement to see changes!

Apo what you think?

March 30, 2017 at 9:18 PM Flag Quote & Reply

tttz
Member
Posts: 9

i just gave some idea for MOD players by my software experience .

March 30, 2017 at 11:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

shroomman
Site Owner
Posts: 448

tttz at March 30, 2017 at 11:08 PM

i just gave some idea for MOD players by my software experience .

?????????

keep in mind that offtopic posts will be deleted!

March 31, 2017 at 12:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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